This page collects information from the mailing list on these ideas and wishlists:
- Wishlist what should be offered with links / names of proponents: Conferences, Books, Examples, Documentation...
- Announced initiatives on WO list: Renewed WOCode / WOFoundation / Renewed WhyWebObjects / WOForge...
- Resources for new sites: Hosting, more Source Code for basic tools such as blogging, CMS...various offers
Your ideas not mentioned here ? Please add them
Wishlist
Update servlet deployment and deployment on other platforms in Wikibook
Lots of info from Apple deployment guides and community in Wikibook is out of date for WO 5.2, please update for WO 5.3+ . Links to Wiki can be found here.
Following is a wishlist of ideas to take up with links and original authors' names where attributed.
WOBuilder Replacement Ideas
These ideas are being collected in the WOLips Wiki.
( Of note, a community replacement for Apple's EOModeler already exists in the form of the Entity Modeler, this project aims to replace the deprecated WOBuilder)
WO Frameworks and CMS: Reviews and Exchange
I think we need to have a very good, published, review of the various frameworks out there:
GVC (Sitemaker), D2W, Noxymo, Wonder, LEWO, Apollo, others???
How about a plug-in/component center?
James Cicenia
http://www.mail-archive.com/webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com/msg06314.html
Link list to this mail:
WONDER 3.0
http://wonder.sourceforge.net/announce/2006-08-10.html - Large, see also discussion below between Jerry and Anjo for better WONDER documentation
LEWOStuff
http://homepage.mac.com/andrewlindesay/le/page_wo.html
Noxymo
http://www.noxymo.com/
Apollo
https://sourceforge.net/projects/apollo-project/
Wirehose
http://www.wirehose.com/
- Reviews of WO CMS / WO Content Assistants
GVC Sitemaker
http://www.gvcsitemaker.com/marketing/download
OCE
http://sourceforge.net/projects/oce
PWDA.com
http://www.pwda.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/PWDA.woa
Pachyderm 2.x
http://www.pachyderm.org/developers.html
WWWODC - WO Conference parallel to WWDC 200x
Chuck Hill
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg00340.html
and others
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg00353.html
Offer for conference registration and ticket handling, George Domurot
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg00382.html
Better Project WONDER documentation
>So now that I've gotten the rant out of my system, I will try to offer one to two hours per day for >the next several days (years) to supplement the PW ERExtensions JavaDocs and the ERExtensions wiki >page if anyone on the PW team will offer me support for my doing so.
I'm not sure - strike that - I'm totally sure it's not a good idea to duplicate docs. And Wonder isn't too shabby in regards to javadoc. Max had taken the time to document all the core stuff and I fixed up all the component things. Heck, we even have a doclet that displays the bindings in javadoc, in a much better way than this crappy "synopsis" thing that others seem to favor.
I'm totally glad whenever someone comes forth and likes to make Wonder more accessible for others. So I can give you commit privs, help you out and all.
I have no real idea what is needed. We have about 1500 classes and 1188 components. Of these, alone 310 components and 669 classes in the core frameworks.
But as a beginner, you really need to understand nothing except use ERXApp, ERXEC and ERXSession. These alone will relieve you of deadlocks, error reporting and fix you up for XHTML.
Then I'd look at the Properties files and the ERX*Utilities, in particular the array operators. Then, maybe ERXGenericRecord, with the willXXX and didXXX stuff and then you are pretty much on your own...
Cheers, Anjo
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg01052.html
Better Project WONDER documentation - Part II
When I dove into Wonder the first time, I found the API docs pretty quickly via Google. Having them available is helpful, but for newcomers, Wonder is just too immense. I spent several hours a day just reading Javadocs and source code to figure out what was going on and how things work.
What Wonder really needs for newcomers is a roadmap, good introduction, and some high-level overview type of stuff, and probably a tutorial or two. Some of that already exists and can be gleaned from the existing documentation, but it's a bit spread out and some is in .txt files that aren't hyperlinked, and it still requires digging into source no matter what, at least if you're using D2W, IMO.
I plan to help with some of this when I get some time, building on my experience. I added a few things to the Wikibook, but from my discussions with Anjo, there are some definite patterns and design philosophies that are helpful to know, and it appears that there are some old legacy classes that need to be marked better as such, or at least steer folks to the newer/better way. That's the kind of stuff I just don't know well enough yet.
Logan
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg01093.html
FAQ and "Getting Started" Documents for WOLips and Project WONDER
I think the following 4 documents could really make a difference ...
New WO Books
Note: Others also proposed simple author self-publishing, eg. using Lulu.com - to bypass publisher troubles.
For a code-base as extensive as WebObjects, especially if Project Wonder is included, several volumes would need to be written. Imagine browsing your local Barnes and Noble shelf and running across the 5 volume series 'Developer's Guide to WebObjects' each volume as thick as the Eclipse Guide mentioned above. Imagine each volume being something like the Joshua Marker book on steroids – with clearly stated steps and helpful diagrams, even on advanced topics.
Is this do-able? Very much so. How about getting Apple and O'Reilly perhaps to sponsor such a project? How about asking a handful of WO experts to assemble teams of writers, each with practical experience in a particular branch of the code base, to write a chapter or two? Start with a 'core' book and branch out from there.
Michael Warner
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg01002.html
What I miss: Real Examples / Complete implementation
-proper examples (no more 'the rest of the implementation is simple and is left as an exercise to the reader').
-a real nice and complete implementation of all the possible ways one can use web objects: HTML, WebServices, AJAX, JavaClient, DirectToWeb, DirectToJava, with forms, mailings, print reports etc, preferably for one problem-space.
The thinkmovies example of Apple seems a bit too far off from the common work-environment for that purpose. I think of something the northwind database that came as an example with MS-Access (is it still?), or the Filemaker templates, that are mostly sufficient for most of the information needs for small organisations, and can be used right away. Of course, it would be expandable in an easy way with examples of how to expand it (localizations, custom components etc). Preferably the example would link up to most of the popular databases (mysql, postgresql, openbase, frontbase, filemaker, oracle, ms-sqlserver, db2, etc).
This example (or examples) should be the reason that people start using WebObjects. A re-implementation of some opensource solution developed in PHP, J2EE or .NET to prove the efficiency of WebObjects compared to these development tools would also be nice (the open source J2EE ERP solution www.compiere.org comes to mind). For developers/ICT people some kind of asset-bug-project-time-support- tracking-software selling system would be nice, and would spread the reputation of WebObjects among the group that would be capable of steering investment-decisions in the WebObjects direction.
Johan Henselmans
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg00997.html
WO "Cookbook" - Chuck Hill
I have been thinking about this sort of book for a while, sort of a Cookbook approach to various topics. I like the idea a lot!
There has not been a lot of interest on the publishers side. If we manage to get the community organized and populated, then selling such an idea will be very easy.
Chuck
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug//msg01031.html
Announced initiatives
WO Code and CMS systems Donate existing code to community projects
WOCode.com - WOCode is my first WebObjects project and desperately needs someone to take it by the hand and lead it in the future. i feel with some help WOCode could be a great repository and learning tool for the community.
what does WOCode currently do:
-accepts WO projects, code samples and shares them with the community
what's planned:
-nothing...
i'll share some other projects/applications in the future if this actually gets off the ground. i guess i could also be off my rocker and nobody really has any interest in these projects?! no big deal, just had to ask. if you have any comments please feel free to share them. my feelings won't be hurt.
thanks for your time,
./james
http://lists.apple.com/archives/webobjects-dev/2006/Aug/msg01005.html
WO Foundation idea from Pascal Robert
mail below
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:44:21 -0400
From: Pascal Robert <probert@os.ca>
Subject: WebObjects Foundation
To: WebObjects-Dev Apple <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <7940FF87-C772-4A0C-9520-376834EBB092@os.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Ok, let's start talking about a WebObjects Foundation (or Alliance,
or whatever).
Why do we need such a thing ?
The Foundation will be responsible to market WO, collecting money to
help speed up the development of open source tools (Entity Modeler,
etc.) and to have an unified voice to communicate with Apple. It
will help all WO people to get to know each other, find
resources and tracking bugs.
On which model ?
The Mozilla Foundation and the Apache Software Foundation are the
best examples of a working foundation.
Give me more details.
For marketing, we had those ideas :
- create a list of all Foundation members so that people can see
that many people are actually using WO for interessing applications
- create some hype by going to conferences like O'Reilly's Web 2.0
so that we can show that WO is actually cool, but also better and
more mature than solutions like PHP and Ruby On Rails
- the Foundation should buy some keywords on Google AdWords so that
we can get more people on the Foundation's site
- convince Apple to link to the Foundation site
For bug tracking :
- create a tool where people can add their Radar bugs, and find
bugs submitted by other people. It should be possible for people
to vote on bugs that they also have,
this way we will be able to report the more important bugs to Apple
- we can also use the same tools to track bugs for tools created by
the community
Donations :
- donations should be possible to help financing open source tools
development, to organize the future WO conference (WOConf) and to pay
for fees like the Foundation's Web site and Google AdWords
Software :
- approve versions of open-source tools for production use, maybe
also creating complete packages with various tools
You have other ideas ? You want to participate in the creation of
the Foundation ? You think that's it a bad idea ?
Similar ideas, mail below
Rebuilt advocacy site
http://www.whywebobjects.org/Log/Log.html
WOForge and other ideas
Similar ideas, mail below
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:33:46 +0200
From: Wolfram Stebel <Wolfram.Stebel@bugs-and-errors.de>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on WOFoundation
To: "James M. Terry" <jmterry@raq-it.net>, WebObjects-List Apple
<webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <C10DEB0A.121F3%Wolfram.Stebel@bugs-and-errors.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Am 20.08.2006 9:18 Uhr schrieb "James M. Terry" unter <jmterry@raq-it.net>:
See also thread:
- Re: whywebobjects.org - WWDC followup [and URLs],
- Lets Start doing it
Se also last mail from Don Guernsey <dononyx@yahoo.com> at "WebObjects
Foundation" thread.
James, would you tie all them together?
There seem to be a lot of avaliable resources 
WOForge
Hello Everyone!
I have been following the WOFoundation discussion on the list closely
and find the enthusiasm refreshing. I haven't been this excited
about WO's future for years! During WWDC & since, I have been
talking with some of you about how we as a community can all start
moving in a similar direction for a sustained period... the sustained
part has historically been a problem.
The idea of forming a Foundation or some type of non-profit entity
along the lines of what CalConnect (http://www.calconnect.org) is to
iCalendar would be beneficial to the WO community. WebObjects needs
advocacy; as many of us have repeatedly pointed out over the years.
A Foundation could provide that structure, and elements of CalConnect
could be used as a model.
The Foundation could also serve as a focal point for the WO
community, much like what Mac OS Forge (http://www.macosforge.org) is
to Apple's open-source efforts, providing a common direction for all
us renegades & loners.
My sense is that we need infrastructure to support & guide our efforts:
- content management on the front end (magnolia? http://
www.magnolia.info)
- source control, issue tracking, documentation & collaboration for
each development project (trac? http://trac.edgewall.org)
- a wiki for all other projects (eventually... http://www.apple.com/
server/macosx/leopard/wikiserver.html ?)
We need a starting point...
I registered WOForge.com, .net, and .org, and would gladly donate the
domains and hosting to such a Foundation. We could use the domains
now, while working towards formalizing the Foundation over the coming
months.
Let me know what you think!
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________
James M. Terry
http://www.raQ-it.net
More WO source code availability and working applications
> For a system with
> such fantastic ease of use in creating webapplications there is a
> complete vacuum of turnkey solutions for various things.
>
> Blogging:
> Content Management:
> Project Management?
> Bug Tracking?
> Anything that needs a database to function properly. Media
> galleries (video, audio, photo). Inventory/asset management
> systems. CRMs. PIMs.
Full mail below
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 14:27:10 -0500
From: James Cicenia <james@jimijon.com>
Subject: Re: WebObjects Foundation
To: Arturo P?rez <arturo@ethicist.net>
Cc: WebObjects-Dev Apple <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <DEE8004D-DBBE-4798-8D28-FEFC5F26AB93@jimijon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I concur +5
Every time I dip into the php waters I am amazed at all the
available source/solutions !!!!
Ecosystems seem to start around Content Management Systems. Maybe
this is GVC?!
If so we should all rally around it and start making plugins, guides,
installers, etc.
We just seem to need one seed where we can get consensus to rally
around.
James Cicenia
On Aug 19, 2006, at 12:54 PM, Arturo Pérez wrote:
> Excellent and amazing comments all.
>
> Having gone against management to use WO and having had to explain
> many times to the ignorant J2EE/Struts/Hibernate crowd I have one
> humble suggestion.
>
> Build complete opensource solutions based on WO. For a system with
> such fantastic ease of use in creating webapplications there is a
> complete vacuum of turnkey solutions for various things.
>
> Blogging:
> Where's a WO-based solution for blogging? We all know we could
> build one in a few weeks with WO and Wonder. So why isn't there one?
>
> Content Management:
> There are so many content management applications out there,
> where's the opensource WO-based one? (Yeah, I know, GVC just came
> out).
>
> Project Management?
> Bug Tracking?
>
> Anything that needs a database to function properly. Media
> galleries (video, audio, photo). Inventory/asset management
> systems. CRMs. PIMs. School information systems (that's what I
> was working on in my spare time). We need to provide and eat our
> own dog food. Subsystems even: authentication, authorization,
> etc. Having watched this list for the last 6-7 years, why do we
> still get people asking how to make a login app, for chrissake?!
>
> I think when one looks at the software market and can see 50
> (admittedly lousy) blogs written using J2EE and none using WO then
> the conclusion is obvious.
>
> We need to opensource more WO stuff, we need to make a massive WO-
> SourceForge and then I think we may get some traction akin to what
> RoR gets.
>
> Wonder is an excellent framework. Now let's make some excellent
> applications/solutions to really show off what we can do. Then,
> when people see the things that just cannot be done as well or as
> easily with other technology, they will really take notice. IMHO,
> the only reason J2EE has as much momentum as it does is because
> there are tens/hundreds of thousands of developers contributing
> slowly and painfully to it. Can you imagine what a WO-based
> solution suite would be like if it had that kind of manpower thrown
> at it?
>
> -arturo
>
> ___________________________________
Offers
Hosting, Mailing list offers etc. for Community efforts
Please add your offers and possibly URLs below, this frew quite extensive and I'm sure I missed some. Thanks. Also see mails above.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 16:14:27 -0500
From: Ricardo Strausz <dinos@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Lets Start doing it
To: Karl <kgretton@mac.com>
Cc: WO Dev-Apple <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <D0D84528-3101-4963-90FB-6C08C51EF6C9@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
That is very good news... we should integrate it into the project.
On Aug 19, 2006, at 3:46 PM, Karl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have a good list server - CommunigatePro. It allows all the
> usual controls.
>
> We would be happy to host a list if that is desirable. And it can
> be active in minutes.
>
> The list server will also offer an archive page for viewing
> previous posts.
>
> Karl
> kgretton@mac.com
>
>
> <Postmaster.gif>
>
> On 19-Aug-06, at 4:32 PM, Ricardo Strausz wrote:
>
>> Hola!
>> With no dude, this is the first "kicking off" words I hear... let
>> do it!
>>
>> 1. I am about to receive money to get a Mac Pro (from
>> math.unam.mx) which we can use as a mirror to Wolfram's Xserve
>> (this depends on government, so I cannot give a precise date
>> yet... but must happen soon).
>>
>> 2. We should have an expert in mail (for the list... may be simply
>> to get "majordomo" working) and to set up a web-log, the wiki, and
>> the ftp server to publish code... I am sure that guru Chuck can
>> help... do you?
>>
>> (in the meantime I started my own blog at strausz.blogspot.com on
>> "how to port Cocoa/EOF to something else" ---or, "the beginning of a
>> nightmare"---... any comment will be welcome)
>>
>> 3. about the name-space: many of the suggestions are already
>> "protected", but I found that wodc.com.mx
>> (WebObjectsDevelopersConnection) is free... shall I buy it?
>>
>> Dino
>>
>> "truth will give us freedom"
>>
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2006, at 2:06 PM, webobjects-dev-
>> request@lists.apple.com wrote:
>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 19:25:37 +0200
>>> From: Wolfram Stebel <Wolfram.Stebel@bugs-and-errors.de>
>>> Subject: Re: whywebobjects.org - WWDC followup [and URLs], Lets
>>> Start
>>> doing it
>>> To: WebObjects-List Apple <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>
>>> Message-ID: <C10D1631.121D1%Wolfram.Stebel@bugs-and-errors.de>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>>
>>> Hi list,
>>>
>>> Sorry for ignoring the tons of mails that have been spend on this
>>> and
>>> similar subjects since WWDC 2006 (i've read some of them, but the
>>> threads
>>> got longer and longer..., and less interesting [sorry]).
>>>
>>> I can see clearly that the community has to engage itself and i
>>> want to do
>>> my part and offer the following:
>>>
>>> 1. I will support the website with my Xserve for free (10.4.7, mySQL
>>> optional Frontbase, Mail..., still many gigs available)
>>> 2. I will give 2 or more dedicated admins of this project full
>>> admin access
>>> to this server
>>> 3. If someone knows how to, set up a mailing list for our special
>>> interest
>>> group (Off of apples lists) for internal communication
>>> 4. I will pay the transfer volume
>>>
>>> Someone else should please get a domain (please stop discussing
>>> on this
>>> minor problem, simply get all of the discussed domain names )
>>> and care
>>> for routing to my server.
>>>
>>> I expect that we are setting up a interest group that will
>>> structure the
>>> content of the website, others defining the layout and corporate
>>> design
>>> etc., a lot of them hacking....
>>> I expect that we will have a highend "web 2.0" webobjects website
>>> who's
>>> sourcecode is free and downloadable from this site.
>>> We should make it even more easy for WO interested developers to get
>>> started.
>>>
>>> Because i'm very busy in the moment, let me hear clearly if we
>>> will follow
>>> this way, so i can arange to follow the regarding threads on this
>>> list and
>>> do my part for it.
>>>
>>> I have been developing for 1.5 years a realy nice web application
>>> (www.webclubs.de) and i have been supported perfectly by this list.
>>> I would be very glad to work together with you capacities
>>>
>>> Always enjoying your expertise...
>>>
>>> Wolfram
>>>
>>> P.S. We don't want the cake, we want the whole fucking bakery
One more offer:
Hello guys,
My company (Active WO Supporter) is willing to offer a room (free) in it's datacenter if a server need a home (datacenter in switzerland).
Physical administration would also be provided.
We don't have any server to provide at the moment.
So, if anything builds up and need a host, just send me a mail.
Regards
-
Kuon
CEO - Goyman.com SA
http://www.goyman.com/
